I'm still working through the Clift Thesis -
My observations so far are that she is presenting a fairly sympathetic portrait of The Community, but is WAY too bound up in the "Fraternal" thing. Also, what's with the Feminist Rhetoric? - "Playboy objectifies women" - give me a break! WOMEN OBJECTIFY THEMSELVES in an attempt to please and manipulate men...
Sheesh...and this is 2008!
...Pg 53: Men and women awash in a sea of bewilderment because of the breakdown of cultural codes
Collapse of traditional Courtship (great meme)
Hmmmm Colonial values regarding marriage sound eerily similar to my proposal about "children without marriage"...Marriage was based on "reason" not love back then!...hahahahaha..."traditional family values" indeed...
"Romantic love" is seen as "immature and unreliable" ...again...eerily similar to my recent discussions, and even backed by science...My "Crack heads getting married and raising children" metaphor....only it's at least 200 years old, lol....
hahahaha..."bundling boards"!..they surely found a way around THAT contraption, lol...30% pre-marital conception? sounds like "modern times"!
"Men were lustful, so it stood to reason that women—contrary to the theories of the colonial era—were chaste and possibly passionless."
So THATS where the current matrix got it's start!
The roles of men and women were distinct. Common perception valued domesticity and viewed women as virtuous and morally superior to men; at the same time, a man's primary role was to support his family through work outside the home.
Ditto - WTF?
During courtship, men emphasized their own feelings while women did not do so with equal intensity. This was most likely due to the greater control that men had over their own futures than did women. Rothman notes this power imbalance and attributes the difference in emotional openness to the fact that men were responsible for being "the initiators of intimate relationships. Women were expected to receive offers of marriage."6
By the 20ies....this crap has been systematized....men must supplicate....it's STILL WITH US! Damn....... The program was written a LONG time ago...and it has some how survived the "sexual revolution" and Fememism. What a powerful idea we are fighting eh? Resiliant and virulent too...
"The problem with being a pickup artist is that there are concepts like sincerity, genuineness, trust, and connection that are important to women. And all the techniques that are so effective in beginning a relationship violate every principle necessary to maintain one."
Damn..."Style" said THAT? Not bad....sounds like he hit the same wall I did....
"Men and women often defined themselves and each other as commodities, the woman valued by the level of consumption she could demand… and the man by the level of consumption he could provide."
Ross talks about this in his 1999 tapes - It's very inhuman if you really consider it.
Despite the control that monetary power may provide them, PUAs implicitly reject their own commodification by encouraging each other not to pay during the initial stages of dating. The men of the Seduction Community insist that the expectation that a man should pay is a socially constructed and harmful gender role. In an interview withThe Hollywood Podcast, Strauss explains, "The whole point of this community is to be able to do it [pickup women] without fame, looks, or wealth, and it's totally possible."
Again - what a GREAT idea... Ross started this. This is the revolutionary aspect of the modern Pick-up community - rejection of the dehumanization of both men and women.
Too many guys are textbook black and white, trying to follow a protocol set by other PUA fuckups. If she's a cool girl and you can still pay your rent, buy the girl a damndrink and tell your friends to shut the hell up."
EXACTLY - a lack of generosity is death to any relationship...
As the era of dating continued and the relationship between economy and sex intensified, breast size, according to Bailey, became a determinant of a woman's value due to the fact that it could be easily quantified as an objective measurement of a woman's worth.
This is just sad...but all to true... =( I had a GF who mutilated her chest like this to have bigger breasts...it was sad. She lost all sensation in one of her breasts from the operation... =(((((
Much of the pickup theory within the Seduction Community is based on evolutionary theory rather thansocially prescribed norms of behavior. By doing so, PUAs find a solution to the current lack of dating structure
Nice conclusion - the "science" of reproduction and courtship dictating inter-gender dynamics - a return to the "rationalism" of the 1700's =)
More to follow as I continue working through the paper
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
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2 comments:
I just finished this. Thanx for posting it.
She did better than I expected, but she still misses the forest for the trees. At least she didn't focus on The Cube & Peacocking.
She kinda skirted it with the story of her brother, but I doubt she ever understood the agony guys like him feel. She mentioned Anthropology and Dieda but missed the real point studying it.
The liberation of women has created a new game, or perhaps brought us back to the original game, life in the pack of hunting gathering hairless apes. In that life, a small fraction of males did all the procreating. It was the advent of farming, and the need to know who the father was in order to pass on ownership of the land that distributed one female to each and every male, because that was what made the King's kingdom function most smoothly. (And it is worth noting, the King was not bound by this rule)
Modern society with vast herd of self supporting unmarried women functions by the old ape pack rules. The alpha apes get to do most of the sperm dispensing. The rest are consigned to choose between a celibate life or marriage to either a low prestige woman the big apes are not interested in, or a n aging hot babe who wants a kid, and will divorce the beta when convenient, taking his resources with her so she can resume the party girl life.
The Community teaches beta apes the alpha ape behaviors that will get them laid without having to promise a lifetime of loyalty to some LSE/LD fatty or future support payment recipient.
The combination of a teacher corps that is whiny Feminists and pussified beta males, plus a high divorce rate leaving many boys in a home without a father has produced a vast herd of pussified men. The Community de-pussifies them, and gives them back their dicks. This is it's real value, to its members and society.
Of course, that analysis would have caused her to get burnt at the stake after she handed in her thesis, so I guess what she did write is as good as college PC thought limits will allow.
Silvertree
Thanks for your comments ST - I couldn't agree more - we have returned to the era of the stone age in many ways - what irony!
This is the progress that Femenism ( and a whole raft of other hair-brained social theories and experiments) has brought us.
As you say, the male children of divorce have had to find thier own way out of the jungle - and the Community is one way they have done this.
Female children of divorce are denied fathers as well. How this effects thier image of men and ability to form loving relationships with them as adults is an open question I hope to address at some point.
The community still has a LOT of growing to do IMO however. Too much focus on lays, and not enough compassion for woman and the challenges THEY face in modern culture as a result of thier reproductive drives in this wierd, modern context.
No one is happy - and my aim is to fix that, in some small way, so that humanity can get on with the real business of life:
Forming loving relationships and raising happy, secure children into ethical, loving adults.
This does not mean lifelong, monogamous marriage in most cases from what I can tell. More like long term loving partnerships that are non exclusive.
The current system destroys the positive bonds that form between men and women from what I can see...
We need a better way.
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